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Tupac

Burqa Ban.

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This post was inspired by @Team Selena Gomez's topic on Abortion, as sensitive topics aren't often discussed here. I suggest you go check out his thread.

 

So essentially, on October 17th 2017, the Province of Quebec in my country Canada banned face coverings in public spaces. This move was to be a "religious neutrality decision", as quoted by CBC. The banning of face coverings included the niqab/burqa. Most Canadians feel at ease with this move, with a staggering 70% of Canadian's displaying support. The move was in part to stop the wearing of obvious religious symbols by public servants. 

While I personally don't care if a public Servant is wearing a Crucifix, turban, taqiyah, and so forth, I absolutely am in support of the banning on Burqas. Here are a few reasons why: For one, no-where in the Quran does it mention a woman having to wear a Burqa. While it does mention men and women dressing modestly, the burqa is, simply put, a piece of garment meant to oppress women. Another reason I am in support of the ban is the fact that these coverings can put my peoples security & safety at risk. I believe that people should be easily identifiable in public spaces for the safety of everyone around them. There is no difference in wearing a balaclava or mask than there is wearing a burqa. I truly do not care if it is a cultural custom (if you can even call it that), as Canada has our own culture. If I were to travel to other parts of the world, I would be expected to follow their customs, and I would in a respective manner.

I posted this here because I am aware that there is a significant Arabic population on roatpkz, and I am curious to see what their views would be, as well as what other people from the west may think. I hope this opens an opportunity for an interesting debate. 

@Yoobs

Edited by Tupac

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So...let's liberate women by telling them what they can't wear because it was supposedly forced upon them, hence we shall rectify this by forcing them to cease wearing their "oppression shackles". Took me like 2 seconds to find that logical fallacy, my mother, a lot of muslim woman just wear it or a hijab to feel closer to Allah. Honestly good for them truly bro, as for the whole saftey thing, my nigga if I/they wanted to rob or hurt someone some written law won't physically stop them. There was a Degrassi episode next class that dealt with this exact topic go watch it, great show.

 

Edited by Sage fest
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10 minutes ago, Sage fest said:

So...let's liberate women by telling them what they can't wear because it was supposedly forced upon them, hence we shall rectify this by forcing them to cease wearing their "oppression shackles". Took me like 2 seconds to find that logical fallacy, my mother, a lot of muslim woman just wear it to feel closer to Allah. Honestly good for them truly bro, as for the whole saftey thing, my nigga if I/they wanted to rob or hurt someone some written law won't physically stop them. There was a Degrassi episode next class that dealt with this exact topic go watch it, great show.

Regardless of your religious views, the burqa is a security risk. I can't even go into a bank wearing sunglasses. There's no way someone should be allowed into a bank, on a bus, or into large public spaces wearing a garment covering every inch of the body, unless pre-authorized by the property owner (assuming it's private property). I respect that it makes your mother feel closer to God, but at the end of the day the Burqa is not a symbol Mohamed would have enforced. 

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2 minutes ago, Tupac said:

Regardless of your religious views, the burqa is a security risk. I can't even go into a bank wearing sunglasses. There's no way someone should be allowed into a bank, on a bus, or into large public spaces wearing a garment covering every inch of the body, unless pre-authorized by the property owner (assuming it's private property). I respect that it makes your mother feel closer to God, but at the end of the day the Burqa is not a symbol Mohamed would have enforced. 

Canada is more or less a free country, so you think forcing someone to conform to your ideals is wrong...kind of like what Canada is doing right now? Only difference one is religious other is more of a political majority rule. I think banning a burqa in a private place should be discussed/debated but in public altogether? no. Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary saftey, deserve neither Liberty nor Saftey". I recall in January like 6 people were killed in a Qubec city mosque news flash he was not charged with terrorism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City_mosque_shooting

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1 minute ago, Sage fest said:

Canada is more or less a free country, so you think forcing someone to conform to your ideals is wrong...kind of like what Canada is doing right now? Only difference one is religious other is more of a political majority rule. I think banning a burqa in a private place should be discussed/debated but in public altogether? no. Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary saftey, deserve neither Liberty nor Saftey". I recall in January like 6 people were killed in a Qubec city mosque news flash he was not charged with terrorism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City_mosque_shooting

Of the 25 worst countries to be a Christian, 23 of those countries were predominantly Muslim countries. I find it rich when people come to Canada, arguably one of the nicest places on earth, and complain when we ask that our values and security stay true. In regards to your quote on Benjamin Franklin, the burqa is not an "essential liberty", as it is a tool used to oppress women. The literal opposite of a liberty. 

I do agree with you that the attack on the Quebec City mosque was terrorism. While he may not have been convicted of Terrorism, literally everyone in the country PM included stated that it was a terror attack. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/21/when-burqas-become-accessories-to-crime/ People's feelings aren't worth the risk. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Tupac said:

Of the 25 worst countries to be a Christian, 23 of those countries were predominantly Muslim countries. I find it rich when people come to Canada, arguably one of the nicest places on earth, and complain when we ask that our values and security stay true. In regards to your quote on Benjamin Franklin, the burqa is not an "essential liberty", as it is a tool used to oppress women. The literal opposite of a liberty. 

I do agree with you that the attack on the Quebec City mosque was terrorism. While he may not have been convicted of Terrorism, literally everyone in the country PM included stated that it was a terror attack. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/21/when-burqas-become-accessories-to-crime/ People's feelings aren't worth the risk. 

 

When in rome? that argument is flawed since Canada is more or less a melting pot is it not? you have a sikh as your minister of defense. Adopting, embracing, and respecting cultural values is a trait all Northern Americans share, this scared rhetric of what may come to be, "someone think of the poor children" point of view is baseless. http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/a-list-of-terrorist-incidents-and-attacks-in-canada-1.3614381 show me a number of hijab/burqaI/niquab w.e attacks. You know what is an essential liberty? freedom of religion. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Canada most done by non muslims, anywho going to bed due to work, but I see your point about hiding identity but this topic quickly became a religious debate and I'm sure neither of us intended that. 

Edited by Sage fest
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Just now, Sage fest said:

When in rome? that argument is flawed since Canada is more or less a melting pot is it not? you have a sikh as your minister of defense. Adopting, embracing, and respecting cultural values is a trait all Northern Americans share, this scared rhetric of what may come to be, "someone think of the poor children" point of view is baseless. http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/a-list-of-terrorist-incidents-and-attacks-in-canada-1.3614381 show me a number of hijab/burqaI/niquab w.e attacks. You know what is an essential liberty? freedom of religion. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Canada most done by non muslims, anywho going to bed d7e to work, but I see your point about hiding identity but this topic quixkly became a religious debate and I'm sure neither of us intended that. 

I guess the main thing is that Canada has never had any significant security threats (other than the FLQ in the 80's) until very recently. I think it's incredibly unfortunate that the extremists are creating such a division between good muslims and the rest of the western world. Also, seeing that the burqa is not a legitimate religious symbol (not mentioned in the quran) it does not fall under freedom of religion. It is a cultural item. 

At the end of the day while we clearly see differently on this topic, I respect and for the most part understand your views. 

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1 hour ago, Tupac said:

Regardless of your religious views, the burqa is a security risk. I can't even go into a bank wearing sunglasses. There's no way someone should be allowed into a bank, on a bus, or into large public spaces wearing a garment covering every inch of the body, unless pre-authorized by the property owner (assuming it's private property). I respect that it makes your mother feel closer to God, but at the end of the day the Burqa is not a symbol Mohamed would have enforced. 

Topic closed

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As a Muslim myself, my views aren't as strict as some, nor are they relaxed as other Muslims - they are middle of the road. I am going to post an image here, to give people a context of what the different types of headdresses are available and the names of them, seen as me being a male, sometimes the various types confuse me also!

iRwFyBB.jpg

My mother wears the Hijab at home and the Niqab in public. However she will always lift the veil and show her face where required to do so (e.g. a bank). Normally if she is in a place with only females, she will take it off, but not if males (who are not related) are present. This is her choice and she has been doing it for as long as I remember, but the fact she comes from Pakistan and raised there it is the norm and just bringing her culture to here (UK).

I see many 'new generation' girls who are born here and therefore adopt western clothes without any headwear. However, seen as I'm sort of a traditionalist and religious, I would expect my wife to keep to the Hijab (first pic) as a bare minimum at all times in public, and she does (by her own choice), it's one of the criteria I required. Furthermore, the "hijab" should mean the whole body not just the head, i.e. I believe women should dress more appropriately and wear loose fitting garments not tight clothes that show a lot of skin (like nuns). But hey, I'm in the wrong country for that, I want to eventually move back East one day! 

tl;dr I think Muslim women need to at least wear the 'hijab' as show above pic, beyond that it's up to you. 

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On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:49 AM, Tupac said:

This post was inspired by @Team Selena Gomez's topic on Abortion, as sensitive topics aren't often discussed here. I suggest you go check out his thread.

 

So essentially, on October 17th 2017, the Province of Quebec in my country Canada banned face coverings in public spaces. This move was to be a "religious neutrality decision", as quoted by CBC. The banning of face coverings included the niqab/burqa. Most Canadians feel at ease with this move, with a staggering 70% of Canadian's displaying support. The move was in part to stop the wearing of obvious religious symbols by public servants. 

While I personally don't care if a public Servant is wearing a Crucifix, turban, taqiyah, and so forth, I absolutely am in support of the banning on Burqas. Here are a few reasons why: For one, no-where in the Quran does it mention a woman having to wear a Burqa. While it does mention men and women dressing modestly, the burqa is, simply put, a piece of garment meant to oppress women. Another reason I am in support of the ban is the fact that these coverings can put my peoples security & safety at risk. I believe that people should be easily identifiable in public spaces for the safety of everyone around them. There is no difference in wearing a balaclava or mask than there is wearing a burqa. I truly do not care if it is a cultural custom (if you can even call it that), as Canada has our own culture. If I were to travel to other parts of the world, I would be expected to follow their customs, and I would in a respective manner.

I posted this here because I am aware that there is a significant Arabic population on roatpkz, and I am curious to see what their views would be, as well as what other people from the west may think. I hope this opens an opportunity for an interesting debate. 

@Yoobs

The fuck lad?

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